Recently, Popcorn Youth spoke with Kori Gardner, the organist and singer for the indie pop duo Mates of State. She and her husband, Jason Hammell, their drummer and singer, will be playing at Hamilton College in Clinton this Saturday night, Feb. 17. We spoke about buying a new house (the married couple are currently living in New Haven, Conn.), the joys of playing college shows, and her love for the latest Joanna Newsom record.
For more information on this weekend’s show, visit Hamilton College’s Independent Music Fund website. Saxon Shore and Ball of Flame Shoot Fire (remember Winston’s great set from the Jamie Lidell show last fall? This is his band.) will open. The show is at the Hamilton College Annex and begins at 8pm.
Popcorn Youth: “Bring in Back” was one of my favorite pop records of 2006. What’s interesting to me, though, is that it’s full of all these great songs that could very easily pass for singles — any of them are worthy of radio airplay — but Mates of State seems to operate in a genre that doesn’t necessarily reward singles, and certainly not radio airplay. How do you guys feel about this?
Kori Gardner: You know, it’s good to hear you say that because I feel like sometimes I don’t know what the “independent world” is anymore, because it’s changed so much. There are quote-unquote “indie bands” putting out singles and it doesn’t seem to fit in anywhere, but it seems to work for them. And for us, we were into making an entire record of what we felt were really good songs, but like you were saying, you’re not going to push one song over another, it’s not a singles market. I would love it if there was some way to gain more audience. I don’t mind the idea of crossing over to the mainstream. We’ve been around long enough where it wouldn’t really feel like we weren’t doing something that wasn’t credible, you know? (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: I mean, maybe a good example is why you chose “Fraud in the 80s” as the single for your music video. You really could’ve picked any song, and it would have been a great music video!
Kori Gardner: We actually just let everyone else at the label work on it. We felt same way you do, where we felt the exact same way about every single song on there, so we didn’t really care which one they picked. (Laughs) I don’t know how it would have been marketed if it was in a major label mindframe; I don’t know if they would have picked that single or pushed the record an entirely different way or what. Who knows? I kind of wish more people would put their efforts into the entire full length record instead of thinking, “Oh, we can have one or two hits, and then the rest can be crap” and it’s ok. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: So how much of a say did you two have in the sequencing of “Bring it Back”?
Kori Gardner: Yeah, we could not figure that out! It kinda happened because with the way we recorded them. Phil, who was engineering and producing the record, he just put them on a tape for us to go home and listen to, and then we could get used to it that way. We tried changing it up but … I don’t know. This one is the first album where we were like, “I don’t know where the songs should go” because the songs really stand their own ground. We didn’t really know how to order it and it just kinda happened that way and it stayed. (Talking to Jason in the background) Jason thinks I’m lying about that question. He’s driving and he just said, “No, we thought about the sequencing.” He thinks he chose the sequence. It wasn’t random, he chose it. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: Well, I like it. I think the flow is really great.
Kori Gardner: (Laughing, talking to Jason) She says good job. Good job, she likes the sequencing. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: “Think Long” is such a strong way to start out.
Kori Gardner: You know, that was the newest song that we had written going into the studio. It’s our newest song, so we were the most excited about that, so that was why it ended up first, actually.
Popcorn Youth: There’s a great range of synth sounds, piano and organ and light bells.
Kori Gardner: Well, we always just have the organ, so it was whatever effects I could come up with and inspire us to write a part. And this last time, we were actually feeling that we needed to expand a little bit, as far as organ and keyboard sounds go, and Phil, again, was really into experimenting and plugging in different amps and getting weird effects or trying different keyboards in the studio that I don’t even bring on tour with me. We bought a couple of new keyboards in addition to the organ. When we’re writing the songs, it’s whatever we feel fits the part we use. And if we get in the studio and feel like even pushing it farther, we just push it and experiment until we get something we like. I don’t really think about it ahead of time, like, “This sound would be really great on this song.”
Popcorn Youth: What equipment do you tour with?
Kori Gardner: We use a Yamaha organ and Jason obviously has a drum kit and there’s two amps, and I have a midi chord and a Yamaha PS08 which is a big keyboard that sounds like a real piano and has some other effects on it too.
Popcorn Youth: How does the songwriting process work? Is it very collaborative? Do you write your own organ parts and Jason writes his own drum parts?
Kori Gardner: We do everything pretty equally. There are definitely some songs that are more influenced by Jason and then there are some that are more influenced by me. It’s hard looking back now, to even remember who said what because we write a lot of our things collaboratively. Although, for our last record, “Bring it Back,” we did some writing in separate instances where we used a computer and used Pro Tools and did some demoing and did more writing on our own. So you’re probably feeling that for the first time on all of our records, we did do individual writing without the other person there. But overall, it’s very 50/50 on everything.
Popcorn Youth: What are the major differences between playing live and playing in a recording studio?
Kori Gardner: I love the energy performing live, especially when you feel like you’re connecting with people. But more and more, I’m starting to love the studio because there are no limits, really — well, I guess there are limits, there’s time and money (laughs) — but other than that, there’s not really limits as far as what you can do with the songs. And you know, we’ve always been a live band. We’ve been touring for a very long time, and we sort of want to work on our skills in the studio, so that’s our challenge, and that’s our favorite.
Popcorn Youth: Did you record “Bring it Back” at home?
Kori Gardner: We haven’t released a full-length record that we’ve recorded on our own at home, but we’re working on our home studio a little bit. The goal eventually is to do everything on our own, and we’re working on demoing for now.
Popcorn Youth: Right. I meant, did you record “Bring it Back” in New Haven?
Kori Gardner: Oh, we did record that record in New Haven. Every record we’ve done in a different city, so I don’t know what’ll happen next. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: What is your take on performing in different venues? Your show this weekend is at the small liberal arts school, Hamilton College.
Kori Gardner: We can be happy anywhere. It has a lot to do with the energy of the people there. Especially when you have a kid along, it’s nice to have somewhere to go that’s not in a dark bar basement. (Laughs) But that’s about all we require. As long as people are cool and it’s an okay place for Magnolia [their daughter] to run around. Although she’s certainly seen her dungeons on the road. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: Hamilton College is really nice.
Kori Gardner: College shows are really fun because it can either be some huge conference room (laughs) or some auditorium room or it can be a cafeteria. And some schools have their little venues, so you never know what you’re going to get. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: You lived in a college town for a long time. Are you originally from Lawrence, Kansas?
Kori Gardner: I was born there, but I moved around a lot. We both went to school there, that’s how we met. He’s not from there, he’s from Minnesota. We both went to school at KU and that’s why we ended up in Lawrence. And it’s a great town, I love college towns.
Popcorn Youth: Lawrence is well known for having a very concentrated underground music scene. When you guys started out in the mid 90s, was the term “indie” even being used to describe the kind of bands that played around town?
Kori Gardner: No, I don’t think the term was really known yet. In fact, it was at the point where it wasn’t cool to say “alternative” anymore. (Laughs) And the word “emo,” well, no one knew what it meant, but you heard it being said. Especially in the Midwest, there were a lot of emo bands, so that was floating around. But “indie” wasn’t even thrown around yet. And we were doing touring without even having the Internet to book shows, you know? Not that the Internet wasn’t there, but it hadn’t progressed to the point where you could send an email and book a show. We had to call from pay phones at gas stations to make sure the show was still going on. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: So what did people call it?
Kori Gardner: In Lawrence, at the time, we never called it anything. It was just “the local bands.” I guess there was “math rock” going on and early, early emo, before emo really had a name. There wasn’t really pop at all. And maybe I’m a little biased, but there wasn’t very much of a woman’s influence there, at all. The music scene was very male dominated; there were maybe one or two bands that had women in them in town, at that time. I’m sure everything’s changed now. But going from there to San Francisco, that was the first thing I noticed. I was like, “Oh my god, there are women everywhere, there’s pop, there’s rock, there’s not one sound here.” And as a college student, you think that what you’re hearing in your little town is what everything else is hearing, and it wasn’t the case.
Popcorn Youth: So during the mid 90s, specifically what were bands in the Midwest doing?
Kori Gardner: It was bands that sort of sounded like Jawbox, maybe some bands sort of sounded like Pavement or Superchunk or Sebadoh. And I feel this way about the Midwest — and I feel this way about Omaha as well as Lawrence — they’re very similar towns, in that people who were making music and still are, were doing it really well. You couldn’t be in a band if you couldn’t play really well. People had a lot more time on their hands or something, like you’re in high school and you learn how to play, and there are great musicians out there. And you could go to NYC or San Francisco, and even though there’s so much great diversity in music, you could show up at a show and there are hipsters in pinstriped suits, but they couldn’t play, but people would still go see them play! And that did not happen in Lawrence. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: What do you think about the current state of indie music? What about topics like the role of Internet, bands self-releasing albums, getting popular on MySpace?
Kori Gardner: Yeah, totally. I think you’re right in that we live in a world where we may not need record labels, and you may just need a distributor. And I think that’s cool, as long as you can think outside of what you’re used to doing. At the same time, music obviously is now such a broad spectrum, but I think people are paying more attention to melody and hooks. They know that there’s a chance that they can put this out on their own, they can have some song click with people, and they can sell 100,000 records and pocket every cent. That in of itself is going to change the way people go about it, unfortunately.
Back when all of the bands from the Midwest were just talking about it, you didn’t have Sirius radio on your computer and iTunes and whatever else that you could hear music constantly. You were making whatever you wanted to make in your basement and believing every second of it — and you weren’t thinking of how it was going to sell. Because records just didn’t sell. (Laughs) So I don’t know. I think there’s great things about it, and I mean, I like melody, so it can be a great thing for me. Or maybe the true musicians are a dying breed … I don’t know. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: Well, it’s quite a democratizing force.
Kori Gardner: Yeah, in that regard, I guess it’s a little more fair. Everyone has the same chance, really.
Popcorn Youth: Are record stores a dying breed, too?
Kori Gardner: I think they are. I hate to see it. I think at some point there might a resurgence where everyone will really want to have something in their hand, instead of just a file on their computer. I can’t get rid of them and we’re moving, and we have boxes and boxes of records. (Laughs) I mean, we don’t need to have them, but I want them! And there really is something neat about the artwork and the liner notes and everything else that you really miss with digital music. Unfortunately, it might be the people our age and around our age that really care about that stuff. I’m not sure how people that are 16 now that don’t really buy CDs; I don’t know if they ever will realize — or maybe we’re just old and out of it — but they don’t get how cool it is to do that. I don’t know.
Popcorn Youth: Do you have an iPod? Has it changed how you listen to the complete album?
Kori Gardner: Yeah, I have an iPod. Back when we didn’t have any digital music or even very many CD, you’d make mix tapes for people. (Laughs) I remember not owning very many CDs. I’d have ten albums at a time, and I’d get so into those albums, I’d know them from front to back, you know? And now, I go into my iPod, and I go, “I don’t know what to listen to, there’s so much on here!” So I put it on shuffle, which basically takes away from the idea of listening to a record front to back, how it used to be then. So I like having the option of having so much at your fingertips, but then again you don’t really learn something unless you make the conscious effort to stop and listen to one record over and over again on your iPod, you know?
Popcorn Youth: It definitely can take discipline.
Kori Gardner: Yeah, it’s like you have to be a researcher more than you used to. You have to make a conscious effort to study it, but it’s not just a result of you being poor and owning five records. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: What is nice about the Internet, though, is being able to download or buy rare or out of print vinyl or CDs. Things you could never heard otherwise.
Kori Gardner: Now, recently, there is so much more available, which is awesome. And I like the idea that you can hear a song or you have a song in your head, and you go, “Okay, I’m going to figure out what this song is.” Or if it’s a cover song, all of the information is there and it’s easy to find out. Obviously information can move quickly that way.
Popcorn Youth: Has better computer software, with regards to recording things digitally, affected Mates of State?
Kori Gardner: That’s really influenced us. We used to have a four track, but it was so limiting. So the only time we would really get into the recording aspect was when we were in the studio and ready to do a record. And now, it’s always a work in progress, and we have so many songs that we may not use or use parts of; it’s just a really great editing tool for us, and I think the last record for us sounded different at least in our minds because of that. We kept going back and fixing songs and really getting to step back from them for a while and come back to them. And then with the goal eventually not having to pay a producer or engineer in the studio, is going to be a huge thing for us. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: A few years ago, you said: “When we listen to songs, it’s the bands that keep having surprises in the music that we love. I like the idea of strange, unexpected change.” How do you and Jason keep that element of surprise in your music, whether you’re playing live or recording?
Kori Gardner: Honestly, I don’t think we don’t really love our songs until that happens. And the reason why it’s an element of surprise for the listetner, in the final product, is because it was a surprise for us, you know? Like we said something as a joke or someone sang something, just messing around, and we’re like, “Wait a minute, that’s different.” Or the part wasn’t supposed to go together by traditional music stanadards, but we like how it goes in a totally different direction. And I think a lot of those happen by accident, and that’s why we love them. And I don’t know if that’s how other songwriters do it or if they need to do it, but sometimes it’s just really an accident. (Laughs) And then it makes it different and exciting to play and it makes it our own. I’m sure its totally against conventional pop structure, but we still like it. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: What are some other musicians that surprise you or have that effect on you?
Kori Gardner: Well, just offhand, we’re in the car right now, and Joanna Newsom’s new record is playing. There’s constant change, right? (Laughs) And that to me is great; you can’t get tired of it.
Popcorn Youth: Were you aware of her when you were living in San Francisco?
Kori Gardner: No. I mean, her first record didn’t come out untitl we were gone from there. I never met her or anything, I don’t even think she was touring or recording at that point when we were there. We were already in New Haven [when “Milk Eyed Mender” came out in 2004].
Popcorn Youth: What other things have you enjoyed in 2006?
Kori Gardner: Let’s see … (laughs). Every time I get asked this question, I can’t think of anything. (Laughs) What are you listening to, Jason? We got Sirius radio this year, and that goes back to the digital thing we were talking about. Every now and then, there are bands that pop up that I’ve never heard of that I think are surprising. There’s this band The Changes and there’s this song they have that comes on all the time and I always think it’s a good song, every time. I like the changes in that, no pun intended. Jason is making fun of me right now. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: Are there any organists or keyboardists that inspire how you play?
Kori Gardner: You know, when we first started playing, and I was playing organ, I was really more influenced by rock bands and guitar players. So I don’t think I necessarily approached it at the beginng as a “keyboard player,” if that makes sense. I was more trying to play the same thing I would play on a guitar, but not on a guitar. (Laughs) I don’t have any keyboard idols actually.
Popcorn Youth: So, you guys are playing Hamilton College on the 17th. You must get a lot of Valentine’s Day requests.
Kori Gardner: You know, it’s funny because we’re always the “Valentine’s Band” and it seems like we always get asked to play on Valentine’s Day. (Laughs) We don’t have anything planned for that day at all, except for that show a couple of days later. We’re not big holiday celebrators, we’re usually on the road, so we’re like, “Oh yeah, it’s fourth of July or whatever!” (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: Does Magnolia have any music that she gravitates towards?
Kori Gardner: Yeah, the best thing lately is that she sits at the piano and sings now and plays with me. And we’re learning “Blowing in the Wind,” and it’s awesome. (Laughs) She loves that song and sings it. It’s the best thing she’s ever gotten into, in my opinion. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: And that’s her on “Nature and the Wreck”?
Kori Gardner: Yeah, that was before she could really talk, just cooing really.
Popcorn Youth: So what do you guys have planned this year? Besides buying a house. (Laughs)
Kori Gardner: Right, well we’re trying to find a home right now, we’re really trying to figure out where we’re going to live. So that’s the first big step. (Laughs) We’re writing and recording a record sometime this year. And we might even be doing a covers record, I think, we’ll see.