[August 15, 2007] We recently posted about an article that we wrote for the Ithaca Times about experimental choreographer, dancer and performance artist Jonah Bokaer. He’s an incredibly busy guy — we interviewed him last summer, when he presented the excellent show ” | underscore | ” — so this time around, we tried to focus on his involvement with the Jim Self-curated Summer of Love Shoe Fest and Bokaer’s own work-in-progress, “The Invention of Minus One.” You can read the article as it appears in the Ithaca Times, or you can read our post here. Presented here is our full conversation with Bokaer. Keep reading on, though, as we have also posted our email interview with Jim Self, who presents here many insights about the Festival and his relationship with Ithaca.
Popcorn Youth: Wow, it’s been almost a year since we last talked! I just wanted to catch up and see what you’ve been working on in the last year, and what you’ll be doing this week. How did you end up participating with this festival?
Jonah Bokaer: Well, Jim [Self] has a deep interest in generating interest in the local dance communities of Ithaca. I applaud his efforts and what he’s done to build more awareness about dance and those kind of event.
It really is following the response to last year’s presentation at Cornell. The house had been full for that evening, and it seemed like a warm, responsive community, so he and I began the discussion about the use of studio time. And rather than going in the same direction as last year, I’m presenting creating a piece that is in need for space for a permanent project development. And I talked with Jim about using studio space at Cornell, and then he then mentioned this initiative with the NYS Dance Force. That kind of community involvement is natural, because I still feel very connected to the Ithaca community. We’ll also present a master dance class, through a world class dance teacher, Banu Ogan.
Popcorn Youth: Do you still dance with Banu?
Jonah Bokaer: Banu was — for many years, I think — in my estimation is that she was a muse of the company. She’s presently pursuing a freelance company and teaching. Presently, she’s in Mexico and she’s getting into acting, she’s a rare creature.
On Friday, we’ll be doing a community event in a public space as well, and then there will be a very cool showing on Thursday evening.
Popcorn Youth: You seem to be involved in every aspect of the festival.
Jonah Bokaer: Jim has been interested in keeping me involved. There’s also the presentation in September at the Common Ground, which focuses on queer dance and the gay communities of Ithaca.
Popcorn Youth: Have you ever performed in unconventional venues such as the Common Ground or the Commons?
Jonah Bokaer: Absolutely. I run a performance space in Brooklyn, a loft studio space, and creating new environments for dance is definitely familiar. And it’s something that I welcome. It’s great for people to experience dance up close — at a close proximity, rather than in the seats of a theater. It seems like the Common Ground show will be like that.
[With regards to the Commons performance,] public space is a little bit more rare for me. I tend to work with projections and video in the décor, so it should be a change.
Popcorn Youth: From your perspective, how do you feel that dance is able to explore issues of dance and gender in ways that the other arts cannot?
Jonah Bokaer: Well, I think that dance almost has the clearest shot at it, because the medium is the body. And when the body is your material, the relationship to society, culture and politics is not a far leap at all. And if you think about the kinds of scholarship that have happened in gay studies, women’s studies and cultural studies, a lot of it focuses on the experience of the body.
The artists that Jim has chosen are really on the cutting edge of New York dance. There’s actually an artist, Miguel Gutierrez, who has been living in San Francisco for a long time and is part of the booming dance team in Brooklyn. Jim has also worked with Shasta Cola, who is a drag queen. And actually a phenomenal, phenomenal drag queen. (Laughs) An amazing performer. I’m interested to see how all of these different cross-sections will take form in Ithaca.
Popcorn Youth: So, you operate a loft in Bushwick, and you live in Bushwick as well. Are there any noticeable differences or divides in the dance scenes of Brooklyn vs. Manhattan?
Jonah Bokaer: What I find interesting is that Brooklyn has the largest concentration of artists, probably, in the world. And it’s really a petrie dish of activity and work. A lot of artists are running their own spaces, and so different kinds of public programming can happen. It’s very generative. Jim, in his own way, is related to that kind of thinking and that kind of creative culture in New York. He lived in lower Manhattan in the 70s where he lived in a loft, and that’s where a lot of early performances were happening in New York. He lived in a similar kind of loft in Ithaca too, and I think that’s probably had an influence on the way that he is curating this festival.
Popcorn Youth: The last time we spoke, we discussed your own investigations within dance — specifically, areas of technology such as motion capture. Do those issues still figure prominently in your approach to dance now?
Jonah Bokaer: The use of media for dance is still a remaining focus. However, what I’ve been working on most recently is building material that is unique to these dancers. It’s also a privilege to scale back a little bit and work with a trio.
Popcorn Youth: Is a trio less than you’re normally used to working with?
Jonah Bokaer: Well, it’s about the same amount, but last year we brought four musical artists as well, and it was a bit of a bigger ensemble. This year, it’s three very mature, award-winning performers, such as Rashuan Mitchell who was just awarded an award for dancing in Merce’s company, and Holley Farmer, who is the recipient of a Betsy award from 2004. It’s a special group. The fact that they are such seasoned artists is having a big impact on the way the work is being built.
Popcorn Youth: Could you talk about the basic concepts behind your piece “The Invention of Minus One”?
Jonah Bokaer: Sure. The concept behind that piece, well, it’s actually a year-long project.
Popcorn Youth: How far along are you now?
Jonah Bokaer: We’ve completed roughly three months of work, so we’re about a quarter of the way through. It is a work about erasing pattern, or disassembling pattern and really taking a look at it. So much digital media has to do so much with binary code, or 1s and 0s. It occurred to me in a lot of different numeric systems, including binary code, people don’t communicate in reverse, and they don’t count backwards. So I’m trying to take a look at new patterns. It’s still very much in its formative stages, but it’s a year-long project, and it’s a pleasure to share the work at this stage in the game.
Popcorn Youth: How would you characterize the nature of the performance on Thursday? For example, the performance now will not be the same today as it will be two weeks from now, or nine months from now?
Jonah Bokaer: Exactly. We’re showing 20 minutes of a dance that will be roughly between 60-70 minutes. What we’re showing is where we are at this stage of the game.
Popcorn Youth: Will the final product also be shown in Ithaca?
Jonah Bokaer: Well, the final project will be actually be premiering in New York in March 2008, and it’s being produced by Dance Space Center. Actually, it’s coproduced by two venues in New York, Dance Space and the Abrams Art Center. It will also tour to Houston, and additionally a couple of venue in France.
Popcorn Youth: As a NYC-based artist, do you frequently tour to show your work?
Jonah Bokaer: I do tour, yes. This is a larger-scale production, or it will grow into that. So we’re glad that there’s already been this kind of enthusiasm, even before the completion of the piece. (Laughs) It’s exciting. It means we really have our work cut out for us. (Laughs)
Popcorn Youth: So Ithacans will have the “first look,” so to speak.
Jonah Bokaer: Ithacans will most definitely have a first look.
Popcorn Youth: Have you worked collaboratively with your dancers for this piece?
Jonah Bokaer: I do work collaboratively with the dancers. But because there is so much content to build, I’ve really been doing a lot of preparation beforehand. I’m actually coming in a day early to prepare — one day before them to have more time. I wouldn’t say there’s co-authorship, but there’s definitely collaboration, just by nature of who they are.
Popcorn Youth: What was it like working with Jim Self?
Jonah Bokaer: Well, Jim and I have a classic working relationship, partly because our history in dance is so similar. I quite literally dance some of his old roles in Merce’s dance company. Jim was also an old dance teacher of mine. So there’s a lot of shared history.
Popcorn Youth: Reflecting back upon this last year, what have been the most significant changes that you’ve noticed in your personal growth as an artist, dancer, choreographer?
Jonah Bokaer: The biggest change I would say has been the formation of a solid non-profit to support the dance projects that I do. The infrastructure really has concretized a bit more. So that’s actually been a tremendous development — we even have a board member in Ithaca. We really feel a deep sense of community there. So that’s been significant, but artistically, there’s… a sense of this particular group of artists coming together — and so many of them are really at their peak and coming together to accomplish something, so that’s been an ongoing inspiration.
Popcorn Youth: What else are you working on at the moment?
Jonah Bokear: Hmm… well, I’m working on a project that’s creating the first green building for dance in Brooklyn.
Popcorn Youth: Oh that’s right, you mentioned that last year!
Jonah Bokaer: (Laughs) Right, right. A year later we’re … (laughs) we’re almost there. It’s actually been very optimistic. Our estimated completion date is mid-October of 2007. So that’s a huge project that I’m always working on. (Laughs) It’s been exciting. A lot of that interest comes from having family in the Eco Village and having a different kind of consciousness about energy and sustainability.
Popcorn Youth: Living in Brooklyn, do you miss the fresh air and nature?
Jonah Bokaer: I do. I mean, there’s an urbanity to New York which I participate in. I live in Brooklyn and to be going green in Brooklyn is a statement — it’s a good moment for that. But I do miss the pace of Ithaca.
INTERVIEW WITH JIM SELF, CORNELL DANCE PROFESSOR:
Popcorn Youth: How has it been working with Jonah? What is the dynamic like? Do you two work collaboratively on any projects?
Jim Self: Working with Jonah is always a pleasure because we easily tune into the same channel. I worked closely with Jonah on the residency activities and he helped line up the other two artists for the Queer Love Shoe performance. We have not collaborated on the content of the work before, but this week’s “Laff Fest: on the loose” event will be a collaborative event.
Popcorn Youth: I’m excited to see Jonah’s piece. As both a teacher and a dancer and a friend, how have you observed his work change and grow over the years?
Jim Self: I’ve seen Jonah’s work develop from primarily solo pieces to larger group works incorporating more elaborate use of technology. His movement vocabulary is also becoming more distinctive, and he is getting better at translating those ideas to other dancers which is always a challenge for choreographers. Fortunately for Jonah’s work and the audiences, he works with really great dancers who are masters at realizing and interpreting the ideas of the choreographers they are working with.
Popcorn Youth: Can you explain the title of this program: “The Summer of Love Shoe Fest”? Is it a riff on the Summer of Love in 1967?
Jim Self: The title of the “Summer of Love Shoe Fest” is in fact a play on the 1967 Summer of Love, but that aspect is not the main idea behind the concept. It is more the idea of bringing love through dance and movement, and drawing attention to the role of shoes/walking/dancing. I also wanted something that was easy to access. While the concept of Love Shoe might be mysterious and open to multiple interpretations, everyone has some experience with shoes and love and all the possible combinations of those concepts. The title is also a convenient way to tie together several approaches to making performance.
Popcorn Youth: The festival claims a “New way to experience dance.” Could you elaborate on this a bit? From the audience point of view, or the dancer’s? What is new about it, conceptually or aesthetically?
Jim Self: The new way refers to several aspects of the fest — new venues — i.e., dancers on the Ithaca Commons bringing their performance directly to the people who happen to be there at that time, or bringing concert oriented dance to a club setting like the Common Ground. The audience will be quite close to the dancers in both these cases. It also refers to Jonah’s informal showing — this is material which can be presented in a larger theater venue, offbeat spaces, as a digital event, or in this case, up close and personal in an informal context where the viewers can feel more “inside” the event. In the first event at Cornell last week all of the performers were older and some were not trained as dancers, but as actors and musicians. This is quite different than the usual assumption that dancers must be highly trained or young to be effective at making dance performance.
Popcorn Youth: How did you go about putting together this festival? What was the organizing principle? Do you plan on this being an annual event? Was it intentional to have the festival happen over the summer, although there are fewer students in town to attend shows?
Jim Self: A number of considerations went into the process of putting together the festival. A lot of it has to do with scheduling. I originally intended for all the events to happen in the same week, so everyone would be “in residence” simultaneously and be able to easily interact with each other and the public, and of course it would be at a time when the student population would be in town. Unfortunately the reality of dance touring and means that you take people when you can get them. I wanted all the visitors to be able to visit Ithaca during nice weather, so September was the tail end of that period. I am on an academic schedule, so summer is the time when I can devote time to a project like this — it is also so much easier to run around doing things when the weather is nicer and the days longer. The very original impetus behind doing this kind of festival is the mission of the New York State Dance Force (the main funder) which is to bring dance opportunities to upstate NY in new and innovative ways. This mission works very well with my style and interests.
Popcorn Youth: Is the event Cornell-associated in any way, or is it more of an Ithaca event, in general? How do you perceive the relationship of the Cornell dance community with that of the local Ithaca dance community?
Jim Self: Cornell’s School of Continuing Education and Summer Sessions is the sponsor for the first event “Walk a Minute in My Love Shoe,” and the Dept. of Theatre, Film and Dance is providing the studios for Jonah and dancers to use during the week for rehearsals. Dancers working in studios is a major component of any dance residency. The more time and space they have to work the better. I’m just beginning to get to know the Ithaca dance community. Being on the Cornell Dance faculty is usually very consuming and doesn’t leave much time to get out and get to know other dance activities and people in the area. I’m enjoying having a strong impetus to interact with a larger community.
Popcorn Youth: The event is featuring both local and international performance artists — how did you go about selecting who you wanted to participate?
Jim Self: Working with Jonah was a priority, and he selected his dancers. This process works very well for me because he always chooses really great dancers to work with. Jonah also helped me recruit Glen Rumsey and Miguel Gutierrez, whom I knew, but had not worked with. Their work also embodies the idea of Queer Love Shoe. The local people are friends and colleagues in the performance world who I’ve known for many years and felt comfortable asking to do informal and off beat work.
Popcorn Youth: You’ve already had one event happen — the “Walk a Mile Minute in My Love Shoe.” How did it go? What was the attendance like? Are you optimistic for the rest of the performances?
Jim Self: The first event went quite well. We had a couple of hundred people attend — kids, students, adults, and seniors — it was well received and many people were very excited by the form and the content. Regarding the rest of the performances — I hope there will be plenty of interest and people who will attend.
Popcorn Youth: It sounds like these performances will feature not just dancers, but artists in other disciplines, such as writers, performers, musicians and actors — what is that dynamic like? Why incorporate artists of other media?
Jim Self: I incorporate other artists because I think it brings a richer, deeper quality to the events. I work in painting as well as performance, and several of the other artists do as well.
Popcorn Youth: How accepting is the Ithaca community of “modern” dance? Have you ever felt there was a resistance, or a loyalty to purely classical dance? Or has the Ithaca audience been extremely receptive? What is your personal relationship with classical dance and contemporary dance?
Jim Self: I have personally studied modern and classical dance as well as other contemporary forms. This is true of many of the guest dancers who will be performing. Most professional dancers these days have to have a strong experience in several forms to get work. Contemporary choreographers, myself included, like to work with dancers who can do many different kinds of movements. I think the Ithaca audience is open to these forms, but not as familiar with the forms as I would like them to be. I also want the general dance/performance public to become more comfortable with having dance, dancers and the choreographic process to be more a part of their everyday lives — not something that exists at a distance for the select few, but something easily accessed and experienced.
Popcorn Youth: Could you explain a little more about the “Love Shoe Laff Fest” and “Queer Love Shoe Fest”? How is dance able to explore issues of gender and sexuality in ways that other media cannot?
Jim Self: Dance is a perfect form to explore gender and sexuality because it is so immediate and visible. The body is the site of sexuality and gender, so drawing attention to that aspect is very easy for the dancing body. We tend to wear our body identities without much question, so when a dance artist shows us the many possibilities for body expression, it can be a deeply profound experience.
Popcorn Youth: Why do you think Ithaca is a special place for arts lovers and creators?
Jim Self: Ithaca is a very beautiful location which is inspiring in itself. The people drawn to live here tend to be open and curious about art processes, and genuinely enjoy having a vital and lively performance scene. I would personally like to see more dance oriented events. The local music and theater scene is quite active — the dance scene needs more visibility and development.
Popcorn Youth: Who are you personally inspired by in the art world:
Jim Self: I’m inspired by all of the arts and the artistic process — I am also inspired by watching people walk by on the street, kids playing and other human social interactions. I am also deeply inspired by nature and all the activity one can experience by sitting quietly watching birds, chip monks, deer and other animals go about their business. I feel very lucky to have so many beautiful spots in this area to visit.